Curse

Whiplashr · Dec 29, 2006, 03:45 AM // 03:45

This is odd, because it hasn't always counted. I am on my 4th attempt at survivor (3) with a monk. On my 3rd attempt, I did that mission. I did it from an international district (about a month ago) with henchies (other team was also just one person with henchies). We did the mission, skipped the cutscene, and much to my delight, I did NOT gain a death. I then went on later to be stupid and die somewhere in Elona, and had to start him over again.

No, I didn't just "miss" that I had a death and thought I died later. It was many, many days later, and probably 100k exp later, that I actually died capping some elite in Elona. I was *always* checking my deaths count, whenever I'd play. I'm certain I made it through that mission safely. And I definately died (not just a quick quit and log back in to find I died) on that elite capping run. And I had one death at that point, not two.

I was just thinking of doing this mission with the new monk last night. I'm glad I haven't yet. But it's frustrating because I want to cap some more elites in Cantha and I really need to move the story forward now as I've gotten all the ones in areas before that already.

There must be some kind of glitch or something. I swear I did this mission about a month ago, and did not get a death.

Ninna · Dec 29, 2006, 03:49 AM // 03:49

using SEARCH
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...ivo r+vizunah

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hippie Bane

The cutscene "death" does not count for purposes of the survivor title. My ranger survivor completed that mission and is at 180xp and still going strong.

Quote:

Originally Posted by prism2525

the death caused by shiro doesn't count and nor does the one with instructor ng at the very beginning. The problem is if some other mob, minion (if the MM dies) or vamp weapon kills you.

Mr_T_bot · Dec 29, 2006, 03:54 AM // 03:54

Any statements made before the current build, especially before any major updates, are moot because things usually change in some weird, pointless way.

Whiplashr · Dec 29, 2006, 03:56 AM // 03:56

^^ ya I read on wiki that some of this stuff seems to change from build to build, as if they are missing some change on some builds, and remembering to include it in others (although I have no clue how something like that can happen if they practice good version control). But I suspect it's just some odd side effect of another change that they don't catch right away.

I think I'll go through the mission with another char later and see if it counts or not, before I decide to send my monk in there.

Ninna · Dec 29, 2006, 04:35 AM // 04:35

finished the mission 5 minutes ago and let the end movie play out complete

my death count was unchanged

I had 3 heroes and 12 henchies - no minions

for me,
the movie didnt count as a death

Sonya of Red · Dec 29, 2006, 04:56 AM // 04:56

I have done that mission three times with three different survivors and that death has never counted. Like others have mentioned though this is a new build so who knows. One other possibility is that you died from lag. Let me explain. I have noticed during this winter fest thing that the lag can at times be really bad. With the new system that Anet used to take care of disconnects it possible to be disconnected and it appear that you are still playing. If that happened to you, you could have died and been ressurrected without you even really even knowing. The only hint would have been the dp penalty in the top corner.

Ok, I admit the theory is far fetched but... Lately lag has really been causing some wierness in the game.

Former Ruling · Dec 29, 2006, 05:06 AM // 05:06

The forced death does not count.

Whats happening is EVERY team is using Minion Masters in that mission, and at the end when you "die" the minions become masterless, so when you are "rezzed" in the cutscene the minions become hostile to you and begin to rape your party as the cutscene plays out - and THATS where your death is coming from...

Navaros · Dec 29, 2006, 05:18 AM // 05:18

I got Legendary Survivor on my Dervish. Wouldn't have happened if that cutscene counted as a death. It doesn't.

CyberNigma · Dec 29, 2006, 06:06 AM // 06:06

I think what people are pointing out (and wiki points out) is that the builds aren't always stable. Unless someone has checked it after every build, nobody can know for sure. Ever time a build comes out something unrelated seems to break. It's almost as if the server behind the game is one big-assed kludge.

Ninna · Dec 29, 2006, 07:20 AM // 07:20

as I posted earlier - I redid this mission, *today* a few hours ago

I didnt use minions, I had no change to my death count

I welcome anyone else to try the mission, with no minions, and report back

FalconDance · Dec 29, 2006, 02:39 PM // 14:39

"Death" seems to be arbitrarilly meted out at times.

My Elonian Ele at no time had died or even come close - and then one day doing my usual checks (on the hero screen to see how far/close I was, mapping progress, etc.), I noticed the Survivor title counter was gone! I checked, and sure enough it said she'd died one time! There had been no cutscene death, no questing death, no afk (don't do that unless in town and even then only for a bathroom break and such), NO DEATH to account for. Yet the server shows she died.

Mr_T_bot · Dec 29, 2006, 03:01 PM // 15:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Whiplashr

^^ ya I read on wiki that some of this stuff seems to change from build to build, as if they are missing some change on some builds, and remembering to include it in others (although I have no clue how something like that can happen if they practice good version control). But I suspect it's just some odd side effect of another change that they don't catch right away.

I think I'll go through the mission with another char later and see if it counts or not, before I decide to send my monk in there.

Well, from what I did while programming, I created multiple builds to test certain things and certain builds may have had fixes that other ones didn't, so the final build may get implemented without a major fix. But in a game like this, once a build gets implemented, it needs to be worked from so everything is consistent.

anna · Dec 29, 2006, 06:52 PM // 18:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ninna

using SEARCH
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...ivo r+vizunah

Well if you READ my original post, I stated that I did search (in fact I found this exact thread that you linked). But the last post on that thread was 8-25-06. So, using COMMON SENSE (now there's a novel idea for you), the information in that thread may be outdated since there have been several new builds since then (maybe you didn't know this but things change from build to build.... I know, crazy idea isn't it?). So I created a new thread to try to figure out what's going on.

I also mentioned in my original thread that wiki states that the cut scene deat at Vizunah sometimes counts against Survivor. This has been reported as recently as 12-19-06, (I admit, I didn't post this date).

Any other helpful comments you can make?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ninna

finished the mission 5 minutes ago and let the end movie play out complete

my death count was unchanged

I had 3 heroes and 12 henchies - no minions

for me,
the movie didnt count as a death

Thanks for the info. I'm gonna test it out later today and see what happens. I'll report back when I do.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Navaros

I got Legendary Survivor on my Dervish. Wouldn't have happened if that cutscene counted as a death. It doesn't.

I believe you. But something is obviously going on. I didn't die in the entire mission (and I'm certain I had 0 deaths before the cut scene). After the cut scene I had 1 death, so something caused it. Perhaps it was hostile minions, but the minions didn't have any opportunity to be hostile since I skipped the cut scene (and I had nearly full health immediately before the mission end).

So it seems that the forced death in the cut scene may not be counting against Surivor, but something else that takes place during the cut scene IS causing a death.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Former Ruling

The forced death does not count.

Whats happening is EVERY team is using Minion Masters in that mission, and at the end when you "die" the minions become masterless, so when you are "rezzed" in the cutscene the minions become hostile to you and begin to rape your party as the cutscene plays out - and THATS where your death is coming from...

Maybe that's what it is. But does this occur if I skipped the entire cut scene (which I did)? Or does skipping even matter; does the scene play out as a programmed requirement in the background even though I skipped it (let me know if what I just said doens't make any sense).

So what is the best way to approach this? Should I disconnect once the cut scene starts? Will that matter?

If it is in fact hostile minions causing the death, then it makes sense to kill off all minions before the last fight. But what if the other party has an MM? Should I keep on disconnecting immediately after I discover I have been coupled with a "real" (as opposed to AI) party at the mission start, and keep on trying until I get an AI party? (I hate to do that because I think it's rude toward the other party).

Also wiki reports that a death has sometimes been caused during the cut scene even when no minions are present at all. I'm very confused.

I have a question... What happens to the Surivor Title Bar in the Titles Tab of the Hero Window when you lose survivor? I just read on another thread that the bar (which shows how much XP needed until the next tier) disappears once you die and and are prevented from fruther progressing in that title. Is this true?

I ask because I know that my Survivor Title Bar is still intact and shows how much XP I need until the next tier. Am I still on track toward Indomitable Survivor? (I honestly don't think so because my /death count is 1).

Just wanted to check... I can't test it out until I get home.

EDIT: Never mind. I just tested it. Gone. No biggie I guess.

Kurald Galain · Dec 29, 2006, 09:31 PM // 21:31

I have gotten 2 Survivors thru with Minion Masters and from my knowledge if you skip the cutescene it will NOT play out in the background (tho this is only what i think so no guarantee). But well theres been good 20 - 25 minions around when the cutscene started and the whole team skipped. And the Survivor is still goin.

If the cutscene plays out or not if you skip it can most likely only be correctly answered by a dev.

anna · Dec 29, 2006, 09:51 PM // 21:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kurald Galain

I have gotten 2 Survivors thru with Minion Masters and from my knowledge if you skip the cutescene it will NOT play out in the background (tho this is only what i think so no guarantee). But well theres been good 20 - 25 minions around when the cutscene started and the whole team skipped. And the Survivor is still goin.

If the cutscene plays out or not if you skip it can most likely only be correctly answered by a dev.

Thanks Kurald. I've been thinking... although I skipped the cut scene I do know that it was up for a few seconds before the the other party skipped also. I wasn't paying attention to the cut scene, so if Shiro slays the party at the beginning of the cut scene, or if lag could have caused the cut scene to remain up without our knowing, then I guess that could account of hostile minions killing me (if they can do 500+ damage in a couple of seconds).

I was going to test it out by re-doing the mission. But I've decided to re-create my ranger and then test the mission out again with another character immediate before I take my survivor ranger through (what's the use of testing now if a new build is implemented by the time my ranger arrives at Vizunah?)

Thanks to everyone who offered their explanations and observations.

If anyone has any further ideas, please chime in. For example, what's the best method to help prevent any hostile minions from killing you during the cut scene (or whatever else killed me). Is it "skip" cut scene? Alt+F4? F12? Closing the window via the "X" at the top right hand corner?

FalconDance · Dec 29, 2006, 10:52 PM // 22:52

Anet fixed the "death by hostile minions" a while back, to my knowledge. They can strike all they like but will not kill anyone.

As to the Survivor bar in the Hero tab: if you have already achieved a certain level Survivor, it will remain but will freeze at the xp you earned up to the death (at least it did with mine).

MM and Ritualist (spiritualists) seem to be the easiest to secure Survivor with.

Kurald Galain · Dec 29, 2006, 10:55 PM // 22:55

Best bet is if you can sync 2 groups of friends or 2 groups of friends + henchies so everyone really skips fast enough. Thats what i did. We found out it worked quite well if you start from international districts. Or from your home districts at some odd time when not many are online

.

And i would think "skip" the cutscene is the best way to do it. But as i said earlier your best bet is to try and get some friends of you on BOTH sides (Foreign and Local).

anna · Dec 29, 2006, 11:11 PM // 23:11

Kurald, thanks for the suggestions. I'm gonna try to group with a friend's team in the international district. I'll let all minions die before last fight, then skip scene immediately once the option appears.

Now to create a level 20 Ranger.... *sigh*

Kurald Galain · Dec 29, 2006, 11:56 PM // 23:56

You're welcome. And good luck on getting the title.

Cymmina · Dec 31, 2006, 02:04 PM // 14:04

You can still die during cut scenes. It's possible that he might have had degen on him prior to the cut scene happening, and that killed him.